Shanghai ATP 1000

[stotty]

I see Carlo got felled by Dimitrov. I didn't see the match because I don't have access. Looks like I better sign up for Tennis TV again as it covers all the ATP 1000 events.

I just wonder if players are starting to work Carlos out a little as he's suffered a couple of losses of late at a time when he's been looking the best player in the world, by quite a margin. You wouldn't have thought Dimitrov could have beaten Carlos and I am just wondering how he pulled that off.

[jimlosaltos]

I see Carlo got felled by Dimitrov. I didn't see the match because I don't have access. Looks like I better sign up for Tennis TV again as it covers all the ATP 1000 events.

I just wonder if players are starting to work Carlos out a little as he's suffered a couple of losses of late at a time when he's been looking the best player in the world, by quite a margin. You wouldn't have thought Dimitrov could have beaten Carlos and I am just wondering how he pulled that off.

Watched last night ( on Tennis TV, terrible software but it has the tour matches). Grigor played extremely well, but he wasn't red-lining and was following his usual patterns of play.

Served extremely well wide in the ad court, which saved some big points.

One issue with Alcaraz seems to be that while his return is spectacular, he's vulnerable on his own service. This ATP graphic of the 32 seeds at Wimbledon ranks him in the lower half on "serve effectiveness" {below the "tour average"} which somehow agglomerates aces/ unreturned / aggress follow ups. Alcaraz is below diminutive DeMinaur. Candidly, I've been confused by his serve. When he first came up it appeared great at times, with 135 MPH bombs. Now, it often seems to just start the point.

P.S. This new stat comes from TDI, which is the data operation of ATP presumably the product of the $1 Billion deal with IMG. TDI is put on a par in the ATP org chart with its media operation and overall marketing.

filedata/fetch?id=102388&d=1697058094&type=thumb

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I see Carlo got felled by Dimitrov. I didn't see the match because I don't have access. Looks like I better sign up for Tennis TV again as it covers all the ATP 1000 events.

I just wonder if players are starting to work Carlos out a little as he's suffered a couple of losses of late at a time when he's been looking the best player in the world, by quite a margin. You wouldn't have thought Dimitrov could have beaten Carlos and I am just wondering how he pulled that off.

He really just played better. Another real clue about how Alcaraz stacks up vs the 3. Dimitrov never looked anywhere close to a good as he did vs Alcaraz when he was playing the 3.

[jimlosaltos]

I see Carlo got felled by Dimitrov. I didn't see the match because I don't have access. Looks like I better sign up for Tennis TV again as it covers all the ATP 1000 events.

I just wonder if players are starting to work Carlos out a little as he's suffered a couple of losses of late at a time when he's been looking the best player in the world, by quite a margin. You wouldn't have thought Dimitrov could have beaten Carlos and I am just wondering how he pulled that off.

I'd say Grigor is one of the most under-rated players on tour, in part because his peak was in the shadow of the Big 3.

Won an ATP Tour Final and a Masters 1000. Very few can say that.

Beat "Good" Kyrgios in that Cinci final, back when Kygios was good enough to beat Rafa in the semifinal.

Has beaten each of the Big 3, Federer and Rafa on hard courts, Djokovic on clay, {OK, so he lost a lot more than he won. How many players can say they've beaten all three?}

[arturohernandez]

I'd say Grigor is one of the most under-rated players on tour, in part because his peak was in the shadow of the Big 3.

Won an ATP Tour Final and a Masters 1000. Very few can say that.

Beat "Good" Kyrgios in that Cinci final, back when Kygios was good enough to beat Rafa in the semifinal.

Has beaten each of the Big 3, Federer and Rafa on hard courts, Djokovic on clay, {OK, so he lost a lot more than he won. How many players can say they've beaten all three?}

I have to say that Dimitrov was looking shall we say it..... "Federesque." I now realize why they call him Baby Fed. Not as explosive as Fed, of course. But I wonder if he can make a run at WB again. He has the perfect game for grass courts and his slice is really good.

I noticed that he hit about 80% topspin bh against Alcaraz. In his previous two matches, he hit a lot more slices. So he can adjust depending on the conditions.

There was only Stan to look at for me to reminisce about the good ole' one handed days a few years ago. Now Grigor is carrying the torch.

[arturohernandez]

Watched last night ( on Tennis TV, terrible software but it has the tour matches). Grigor played extremely well, but he wasn't red-lining and was following his usual patterns of play.

Served extremely well wide in the ad court, which saved some big points.

One issue with Alcaraz seems to be that while his return is spectacular, he's vulnerable on his own service. This ATP graphic of the 32 seeds at Wimbledon ranks him in the lower half on "serve effectiveness" {below the "tour average"} which somehow agglomerates aces/ unreturned / aggress follow ups. Alcaraz is below diminutive DeMinaur. Candidly, I've been confused by his serve. When he first came up it appeared great at times, with 135 MPH bombs. Now, it often seems to just start the point.

P.S. This new stat comes from TDI, which is the data operation of ATP presumably the product of the $1 Billion deal with IMG. TDI is put on a par in the ATP org chart with its media operation and overall marketing.

filedata/fetch?id=102388&d=1697058094&type=thumb

It seems to me that Alcaraz really hits a kicky serve mostly. That serve never really gets the angles that other serves do. Without a more sliced serve to vary things, it just gets predictable. He really needs to work on a better slice so that he can vary the spin more.

Also, his forehand is vulnerable. He cannot hit a low running forehand very well. Grigor has a really good running forehand out wide. He looks so classic compared to Alcaraz and yet the classic less frilly game turned into a much more reliable one.

Are we going back to the future here? Will, the classic game come back. The "modern" forehand is great when the player has time and can line it up. But pushed to a corner where they have to run, it breaks down.

Baby Fed has been making my day lately.

[stotty]

I'd say Grigor is one of the most under-rated players on tour, in part because his peak was in the shadow of the Big 3.

Won an ATP Tour Final and a Masters 1000. Very few can say that.

Beat "Good" Kyrgios in that Cinci final, back when Kygios was good enough to beat Rafa in the semifinal.

Has beaten each of the Big 3, Federer and Rafa on hard courts, Djokovic on clay, {OK, so he lost a lot more than he won. How many players can say they've beaten all three?}

Some good points and undeniable facts.

However, in my view Dimi is a big underachiever. Trying to copy another play right down to a T was never a good sign from the outset (remember how Lundgren copied Borg to the point of embarrassment?) Pancho Gonzales had it down right. He confessed that as an upcoming player he stole all the best shots he could find from other players...and not just shots but also how the best players dealt with things. I think he would have drawn the line at idolising and mimicking because he mimicked no one. You have to be yourself, your own man, both in life and on a tennis court.

You can learn a lot from Gonzales. He told the truth and was the toughest of the lot. If he were alive today I think he would have considered Dimi to be a bit of a lightweight. I like Dimi and find him talented and nice to watch, but he took and wrong turn by mimicking, and in a funny, roundabout way, has paid the price.

Very important to be your own man if you want to be great or make a difference.

[stotty]

He really just played better. Another real clue about how Alcaraz stacks up vs the 3. Dimitrov never looked anywhere close to a good as he did vs Alcaraz when he was playing the 3.

Interesting. I wonder why that is? Carlos was outstanding at the FO (before cramping in the final) and at SW19. Has he not carried that form on? I wonder if Dimi has less fear of Carlos than the Big 3? Or whether he can make inroads into Carlos's technical flaws better than could against the Big 3?

I think I better sign up to Tennis TV and take a look...

[jimlosaltos]

It seems to me that Alcaraz really hits a kicky serve mostly. That serve never really gets the angles that other serves do. Without a more sliced serve to vary things, it just gets predictable. He really needs to work on a better slice so that he can vary the spin more.

Also, his forehand is vulnerable. He cannot hit a low running forehand very well. Grigor has a really good running forehand out wide. He looks so classic compared to Alcaraz and yet the classic less frilly game turned into a much more reliable one.

Are we going back to the future here? Will, the classic game come back. The "modern" forehand is great when the player has time and can line it up. But pushed to a corner where they have to run, it breaks down.

Baby Fed has been making my day lately.

It's interesting that you mention Alcaraz's running forehand.

One issue is that, like a Major League Baseball pitcher, it's the second time through the lineup when players have already seen your stuff that a pitcher shows how good they are.

There seem to be two, distinct game plans evolving on how to play Alcaraz. Which will dominate?

When Korda beat him ( Miami? ) he played Alcaraz as if he was Rafa -- take him wide to the deuce court ( his running forehand), then flatten it out to the empty backhand corner. Worked.

Ruud tried to copy that in their US Open final, but didn't do as well with the flat forehand nor could he close at the net like Korda. That's also how Grigor played in his win.

Then, there's Sinner, with a 4:3 H2H edge on Alcaraz. He plays deep him up the middle keeping Alcaraz from going to his heaven top spin. Then Alcaraz gets into a slugging contest.

[jimlosaltos]

Some good points and undeniable facts.

However, in my view Dimi is a big underachiever. Trying to copy another play right down to a T was never a good sign from the outset (remember how Lundgren copied Borg to the point of embarrassment?) Pancho Gonzales had it down right. He confessed that as an upcoming player he stole all the best shots he could find from other players...and not just shots but also how the best players dealt with things. I think he would have drawn the line at idolising and mimicking because he mimicked no one. You have to be yourself, your own man, both in life and on a tennis court.

You can learn a lot from Gonzales. He told the truth and was the toughest of the lot. If he were alive today I think he would have considered Dimi to be a bit of a lightweight. I like Dimi and find him talented and nice to watch, but he took and wrong turn by mimicking, and in a funny, roundabout way, has paid the price.

Very important to be your own man if you want to be great or make a difference.

Wish I knew more about Gonzalez. Had to be a tough guy to survive a tough life.

I don't disagree about Dimitrov, But my perspective is a bit different. I start out thinking that anyone that can get a point (1) on the ATP tour is one of the best players in the world.

The rest is magic <g>.

Glass 99% full

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https://photos.app.goo.gl/p6Y8bMjWeaa9m3LL8

Shot Quality Insights on the 4 semi finalists.

[jimlosaltos]

https://photos.app.goo.gl/p6Y8bMjWeaa9m3LL8

Shot Quality Insights on the 4 semi finalists.

Grigor's one-handed backhand leads the pack ! ! !

Long live the Singleton! Long live the Singleton!

[jimlosaltos]

Stop what you're doing and if you haven't seen Korda-Shelton 1/4 at Shanghai, watch it now.

What awesome tennis.

YT highlights 12;29

https://youtu.be/cNf9BoNwos8?si=E0yKVIMjI1izWDv0

At first, it looked like nobody would lose a point behind their first service. Then they had about a 24 shot rally.

First set tiebreaker was about 20 minutes to 12-10 for Shelton.

What was more awesome than the rallies was the sportsmanship. Ref missed Korda challenging a serve, so when chair admonished Korda for not being emphatic enough, Ben jumped in and said "I saw him raise his hand. Let him have the challenge." Chair did and Korda lost the challenge. Later in their first tiebreak, Korda overruled an out call to give Ben an ace. Turns out replayed showed the serve was actually out and original call was right.

Both guys are winners IMHO d(⌒ー⌒)

Here are the match stats. Korda won same percent behind his second serve that he did behind his first, 67%.

And here's one I've NEVER seen before -- in the decisive third set, both players, both big/good servers, won a higher percentage of points behind their second services than their first serves. Ben narrowly 63/64%, and Seb by a bunch 61% vs 83% of his second serve points - 10/12


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Grigor's one-handed backhand leads the pack ! ! !

Long live the Singleton! Long live the Singleton!

Yes I think his backhand quality is the key to his success in this tournament. It has been standing up, not leaking in too many errors as it seems to usually in the tough matches. The Shot Quality Insights stats certainly make it crystal clear how well his backhand has been performing in this tournament. His slice is the best on Tour to me, but his topspinner off that side has been at its absolute best. I certainly felt watching him this week his backhand was looking about as good as I have ever seen it.

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https://photos.app.goo.gl/qQNNJF5efADzUY8T9

Very long and grueling 1st set. Quite the contrast to the 1st semi, this set took as long as the entire match Hurkacz vs Korda. Rublev won the tiebreaker on a completely unforced error topspin backhand by Grigor.