Interactive Forum April 2023: Aryna Sabalenka Serve

[don_budge]

Perhaps one of the biggest misconceptions of modern day serving and behind the plethora of ugly, ill conceived servied motions is the altar of speed. What is power I ask the student? Answer: Control is power. There are three elements of control...speed, spin and placement. Not necessarily in that order. Control the ball and you control your opponent. Control your opponent and you control the match.

So much is made of MPH, yet that is just one third of the equation for successful serving. Speed alone might get it done for you in any given match...depending largely upon the conditions and your opponent as much as your speed. But it is the combination of all of the elements of control that win night in and night out. It is not possible to serve consistently night in and night out without a service motion that is perfect. Nearly perfect. Roger Federer had arguably the best serve for years on the tour. He exited the stadium as the stand alone example of serving technique and tactics. Berrettini may have served lights out for parts of that match. I didn't notice for the few minutes I watched. I was more intrigued with his opponents motion. A superb motion by today's standards that needed just a little ironing to eliminate a barely perceptible wrinkle.

I never give much attention to MPH. My idiot partner in the little tennis club in Sweden that I worked at used to pull out his "speed device" and let the kids go willy nilly with it. Each trying to outdo the other. I just turned my back on the whole nonsense. Sure...it is important to serve with speed. But the kiss of death is over emphasis on speed...better to concentrate on effortless power (control). The best feedback I ever had was ironically just the other day with a student who had been listening to my instruction in the course of just a couple of video lessons and a couple of phone calls. The last video I saw I said to myself...ahhh...this is how it begins. The student told me that after serving quite a lot of practice they didn't feel any discomfort the next day. Previously they said that after practicing serving the next day they felt as if they had been hit by a train. I change the student from pinpoint to platform in a matter of minutes. Painlessly I might add.

How fast must a server serve? Answer: Fast enough given the situation. It is the combination of spin and placement that is going to win for you in the end. In order to do that you have to be set up to serve like that. It's like golf...the woods are filled with long drivers of the golf ball. Keep watching Berrettini's speed...then you can be quite certain that you have taken your eye off the ball.

I think it will be interesting to watch Nicolas Jarry versus Stefanos Tsitsipas today. I won't see it. But here again are the tale of two serve motions...among other things. The Tsitsipas coaching situation has always intrigued me. All of that potential struggling to come forth. Interesting tales at that.

More service motion discussion in real time at the Monte Carlo tournament.

[don_budge]

Case in point...Roger Federer. Courtesy of tennisplayer.net stroke archive...second to none.

https://www.tennisplayer.net/members/strokearchive/pro_men/rogerfederer/index.html?dir=rf_serve/RF_1st_Serve&stroke=RF1stSDeuceCourtLevelSide1.mp4&new=

[doctorhl]

Case in point...Roger Federer. Courtesy of tennisplayer.net stroke archive...second to none.

https://www.tennisplayer.net/members...Side1.mp4&new=

OLD SCHOOL Fluid Comparison.....Similarities? Differences? https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tyhFo3hvGPI

[jimlosaltos]

I remember when Agassi coached Novak briefly, and he felt Novak needed to gain some weight, more mass. Novak disagreed, and thier coaching arrangement went away shortly thereafter.

Might be related to Djokovic's elbow problems. Agassi reportedly quit coaching Novak because he wouldn't get surgery on his elbow (although he did eventually after Andre' left). A common belief is that tendon and ligament injuries can be prevented with bigger, stronger muscles -- while MDs warn that stronger muscles put MORE strain on tendons & ligaments -- witness MLB pitchers that "look iike Thor" getting Tommy John surgery.

[jimlosaltos]

Someone elsewhere asked for service stats, so while I was at it, here they are for Arnya Sabalenka from multiple sources.

https://www.wtatennis.com/stats/2023

Arnya's 2023 service stats
First serve in 60.5%
First serve % Won: 75.7%, ranked 3rd
First serve UNRETURNED for trailing 52 weeks: 28.5%
Aces: 154, ranked 3rd behind only Rybakina & Garcia
Second serve points won: 50.1%
Second serve points unreturned (52 wks): 21.4%
Service Games won: 85.6%

Her percentage of service games won is 4th on the WTA with only one top player, Caroline Garcia, above her.

Her service numbers were lower in 2022.

Arnya's 2022 service stats
First serve in 59.7%
First serve % Won: 67.7%
Aces: 249, ranked 6th
Second serve points won: 41.8%
Service Games won: 67.7%

Per ubitennis.net,
"Throughout 2022 the Belarussian played 55 matches where she produced an outstanding 428 double faults in 601 service games. It was a difficult period for the talented Sabalenka with her coach, Anton Dubrov, contemplating walking away from her team as he felt he could do no more to help her improve", & per Tennis majors "an average of 7.78 per match"

Foxsports.com.au
In 2022 she dished up 428 double faults, 151 more than any other player on the women’s tour.

Per The Guardian
In her four matches at the Australian Open last year, she struck 56 double faults. This year, she has 11. “I've done a lot,” she said. (but in her 2023 quarterfinal she faced 14 breakpoints, saving 12 of them)

[don_budge]

The Roger Federer Service Setup and Backswing...

Case in point...Roger Federer. Courtesy of tennisplayer.net stroke archive...second to none.

https://www.tennisplayer.net/members...1.mp4&new=

https://www.tennisplayer.net/members/strokearchive/pro_men/rogerfederer/index.html?dir=rf_serve/RF_1st_Serve&stroke=RF1stSDeuceCourtLevelSide1.mp4&new=

Listen up Aryana...I am only going to say this one million times. Or whatever it takes. Here is the end all a be all of service motion setup position and backswing. Courtesy of yours truly...don_budge.

Setup Position...

In order to make a proper and perfect backswing in the service motion, you must be properly setup to make it effortlessly without undue laborious effort. Using the right arrow to click forwards frame by frame.

Frame 1...This is the Federer interpretation. Racquet head...pointing to the ground at a 30 degree angle or so. Pointing in the direction of the target. I recomment aiming the racquet head as you would a gun at the target. Notice the position of the ball hand. Extended well into the court...the ball is nearly in position to go straight up from here to where he will make contact. He actually may toss it just a tad forwards to extend himself a bit more into the court at contact.

Position of the feet. The line at the end of Federer's toes will extend somewhat to the right of his target. Many players do this naturally. My recommendation for the sake of argument and aiming is to make this line directly at your target. Now you have created two lines aiming at your target...the feet and the racquet. We will create a third line in the backswing.

The shape of his arm is slightly bent at the elbow and he will mainain this shape in a totally relaxed manner void of any semblance of tension throughout the backswing.

The weight at address (golf lingo for setup position) is squarely in the front foot with minimal weight in the back foot. Perfect for the illustration of weight shift. Body bent at the waist and leaning into the court.

Even before the player assumes address position he has in his head calculated what type of serve he is going to deliver based on what his opponent has shown him what he can do with the return, based on what the score is and based on what the conditions are. Perfect techniques increases the number of permutations and combinations a player has at his command.

Backswing...

From setup position we initiate the backswing. In the "Monte Carlo" thread I mention a bobbing motion of the racquet head before initiating the backswing...this has the effect of "waggling" the racquet head to help the process of initiating from a static position. A tiny bit of motion helps to establish the tempo of the backswing which is of ultimate importance in order to reduce the necessity of any "compensating" moves to get the thing synched properly.

In frames 1 through 20 Roger simply lets his arms sort of fall while simultaneously turning his shoulders. It is the turning of the shoulders and the body that is supplying the impetus to move the racquet back and not the arms. The arms are simply following the shoulders in a tension free manner. Same with the racquet head...it is simply following the arms. So the sequence is subtley...shoulders, arms, hands and racquet. By doing this the body stays in synch that was established at address.

In frame 20 we see the fruits of Roger's labor...both hands arrive at their lowest postion in the backswing together. The weight has been transferred from the front foot that was firmly into the ground to the back foot that was poised on to his big toe. Now that the transfer is complete and virtually the entire weight is squarely on the back foot and minimal weight on the front heel. He has let gravity dictate the entire motion by using his shoulders to dictate the tempo. Not the arms. Not the hands. The shoulders and the weight of the racquet head.

At this first telling point in the motion Roger is perfectly timed to continue. He is also perfectly aligned. Notice how the shoulders are now square to the target. See where the ball is now...it is now behind the baseline on the same line to the target that it was at address.

Forwards 4 frames and look at the tremendous width Roger has created in his backswing. The tip of the racquet is about as far back as he can reach. This is extremely important and we can think of this as the second check point. Notice too that both hands, the racquet hand and the tossing hand, have both extended out away from his body together as well as up. He is still rotatng his shoulders while the weight distribution remains the same as frame 20. By extending his tossing hand forwards he is releasing the ball on virtually the same line he was holding the ball in his setup position. Another point to notice is that his arm is in the same position that it was at address. He has kept his arm very relaxed and his grip on the racquet is extremely relaxed as well as you can see the racquet is lagging somewhat behind his hand because he is allowing the swinging motion of the backswing to get the racquet "up the hill" to the top of the backswing. Effortless power in the making.

In the next 6 frames Roger continues to rotate his shoulders and he also is "tilting" them by leaning somewhat backwards into his rear leg. Some might say "arching his back". He completes his backswing in 4 more frames and at the exact same moment he is initiating the forwards swing he is driving with his rear foot so that the weight has once again shifted back to the front foot. He is back up on his toes in the rear foot.

This is how it is done. I have written numerous times comparing this motion to that of a rollercoaster ride where the entire ride is based on the force of gravity. The racquet is making a loop behind Roger as he comes out of the backswing and into the forward motion and the racquet head is accelerating to a climactic point at impact. Racquet speed is greatest at impact. Perfect timing. Perfectly synched. Repeatable under all conditions as this motion is completely devoid of any friction. You know...those nasty little hitches and hiccups in virtually every single serve on the tour.

Here...take a look at it from the rear view. I could talk at length about the "track" of the backswing...but enough already. You get the point. Go back to the side by side of Roger and Aryna. Connect the dots. Could I fix Aryna's serve? I have no doubt in my mind that I could. I positively could.

https://www.tennisplayer.net/members/strokearchive/pro_men/rogerfederer/index.html?dir=rf_serve/RF_1st_Serve&stroke=RF1stSDeuceCourtLevelRear1.mp4&new=

[don_budge]

The Roger Federer Service Setup and Backswing...



https://www.tennisplayer.net/members...Side1.mp4&new=


Backswing...

In frame 20 we see the fruits of Roger's labor...both hands arrive at their lowest postion in the backswing together. The weight has been transferred from the front foot that was firmly into the ground to the back foot that was poised on to his big toe. Now that the transfer is complete and virtually the entire weight is squarely on the back foot and minimal weight on the front heel. He has let gravity dictate the entire motion by using his shoulders to dictate the tempo. Not the arms. Not the hands. The shoulders and the weight of the racquet head.

At this first telling point in the motion Roger is perfectly timed to continue. He is also perfectly aligned. Notice how the shoulders are now square to the target. See where the ball is now...it is now behind the baseline on the same line to the target that it was at address.

This position at frame 20 is gold and you can take this to the bank. The work isn't done yet...not even nearly. But if you get the student here the path forwards is clear. They have bought in to the paradigm. "...the model is Richard Gonzalez".

[jthb1021]

The Roger Federer Service Setup and Backswing...

https://www.tennisplayer.net/members/strokearchive/pro_men/rogerfederer/index.html?dir=rf_serve/RF_1st_Serve&stroke=RF1stSDeuceCourtLevelSide1.mp4&new=

Listen up Aryana...I am only going to say this one million times. Or whatever it takes. Here is the end all a be all of service motion setup position and backswing. Courtesy of yours truly...don_budge.

Setup Position...

In order to make a proper and perfect backswing in the service motion, you must be properly setup to make it effortlessly without undue laborious effort. Using the right arrow to click forwards frame by frame.

Frame 1...This is the Federer interpretation. Racquet head...pointing to the ground at a 30 degree angle or so. Pointing in the direction of the target. I recomment aiming the racquet head as you would a gun at the target. Notice the position of the ball hand. Extended well into the court...the ball is nearly in position to go straight up from here to where he will make contact. He actually may toss it just a tad forwards to extend himself a bit more into the court at contact.

Position of the feet. The line at the end of Federer's toes will extend somewhat to the right of his target. Many players do this naturally. My recommendation for the sake of argument and aiming is to make this line directly at your target. Now you have created two lines aiming at your target...the feet and the racquet. We will create a third line in the backswing.

The shape of his arm is slightly bent at the elbow and he will mainain this shape in a totally relaxed manner void of any semblance of tension throughout the backswing.

The weight at address (golf lingo for setup position) is squarely in the front foot with minimal weight in the back foot. Perfect for the illustration of weight shift. Body bent at the waist and leaning into the court.

Even before the player assumes address position he has in his head calculated what type of serve he is going to deliver based on what his opponent has shown him what he can do with the return, based on what the score is and based on what the conditions are. Perfect techniques increases the number of permutations and combinations a player has at his command.

Backswing...

From setup position we initiate the backswing. In the "Monte Carlo" thread I mention a bobbing motion of the racquet head before initiating the backswing...this has the effect of "waggling" the racquet head to help the process of initiating from a static position. A tiny bit of motion helps to establish the tempo of the backswing which is of ultimate importance in order to reduce the necessity of any "compensating" moves to get the thing synched properly.

In frames 1 through 20 Roger simply lets his arms sort of fall while simultaneously turning his shoulders. It is the turning of the shoulders and the body that is supplying the impetus to move the racquet back and not the arms. The arms are simply following the shoulders in a tension free manner. Same with the racquet head...it is simply following the arms. So the sequence is subtley...shoulders, arms, hands and racquet. By doing this the body stays in synch that was established at address.

In frame 20 we see the fruits of Roger's labor...both hands arrive at their lowest postion in the backswing together. The weight has been transferred from the front foot that was firmly into the ground to the back foot that was poised on to his big toe. Now that the transfer is complete and virtually the entire weight is squarely on the back foot and minimal weight on the front heel. He has let gravity dictate the entire motion by using his shoulders to dictate the tempo. Not the arms. Not the hands. The shoulders and the weight of the racquet head.

At this first telling point in the motion Roger is perfectly timed to continue. He is also perfectly aligned. Notice how the shoulders are now square to the target. See where the ball is now...it is now behind the baseline on the same line to the target that it was at address.

Forwards 4 frames and look at the tremendous width Roger has created in his backswing. The tip of the racquet is about as far back as he can reach. This is extremely important and we can think of this as the second check point. Notice too that both hands, the racquet hand and the tossing hand, have both extended out away from his body together as well as up. He is still rotatng his shoulders while the weight distribution remains the same as frame 20. By extending his tossing hand forwards he is releasing the ball on virtually the same line he was holding the ball in his setup position. Another point to notice is that his arm is in the same position that it was at address. He has kept his arm very relaxed and his grip on the racquet is extremely relaxed as well as you can see the racquet is lagging somewhat behind his hand because he is allowing the swinging motion of the backswing to get the racquet "up the hill" to the top of the backswing. Effortless power in the making.

In the next 6 frames Roger continues to rotate his shoulders and he also is "tilting" them by leaning somewhat backwards into his rear leg. Some might say "arching his back". He completes his backswing in 4 more frames and at the exact same moment he is initiating the forwards swing he is driving with his rear foot so that the weight has once again shifted back to the front foot. He is back up on his toes in the rear foot.

This is how it is done. I have written numerous times comparing this motion to that of a rollercoaster ride where the entire ride is based on the force of gravity. The racquet is making a loop behind Roger as he comes out of the backswing and into the forward motion and the racquet head is accelerating to a climactic point at impact. Racquet speed is greatest at impact. Perfect timing. Perfectly synched. Repeatable under all conditions as this motion is completely devoid of any friction. You know...those nasty little hitches and hiccups in virtually every single serve on the tour.

Here...take a look at it from the rear view. I could talk at length about the "track" of the backswing...but enough already. You get the point. Go back to the side by side of Roger and Aryna. Connect the dots. Could I fix Aryna's serve? I have no doubt in my mind that I could. I positively could.

https://www.tennisplayer.net/members/strokearchive/pro_men/rogerfederer/index.html?dir=rf_serve/RF_1st_Serve&stroke=RF1stSDeuceCourtLevelRear1.mp4&new=

I came into this gem of a thread way too late! Budge I’ve missed you! Loved your bounce hit way comment too so much better than the inner game.
Yes,after our work together a couple of years ago I have no doubt you could do wonders for this tortured server! I love this post! Reminds me of some really good times!

[tennisskip1515]

As I see it the crux of the problem, after any consideration of mental scar tissue yips (not to be ignored), is her hitting elbow, as first mentioned above by doctorhl . Unless that comes up before the forearm begins its action the movement is more akin to putting a shot, a push, rather than a circular crack-the-whip of sequential levers. It's not impossible to hit a forceful serve that way, but the margin for error is very small, as her serving history shows. Note that she almost always misses long; pushed slice is not going to have a great chance of falling in the box. I'd also agree with the stotty quote from MacMillan, that she should adjust her toss and go to the kick when she can't "find" a groove for a more flat/slice motion; super hard and out isn't a winning strategy, even if some small percentage of serves are in the box.

While a more rhythmic motion would be a plus, I think there are quite a few dependable serves on the tours that are not picture perfect. But having that elbow, a fulcrum, in the right place is key.

[jimlosaltos]

Sabalenka fell to Iga in today's Stuttgart final in straight sets.

Had 5 double faults, but match was never in doubt, so that wasn't the difference. Lots of good rallies, but Iga's defense was too good today & she has to be the overwhelming favorite in any WTA match on clay now.

Sabalenka is still having a great year: "Sabalenka will still exit Stuttgart as the match-win leader for the year, having accrued 23 match-wins thus far in 2023. Sabalenka will also retain her current position as No.1 in the Race to the WTA Finals."

Some highlights here:

https://www.wtatennis.com/news/3230399/swiatek-beats-sabalenka-to-win-second-straight-stuttgart-title

[don_budge]

As I see it the crux of the problem, after any consideration of mental scar tissue yips (not to be ignored), is her hitting elbow, as first mentioned above by doctorhl . Unless that comes up before the forearm begins its action the movement is more akin to putting a shot, a push, rather than a circular crack-the-whip of sequential levers. It's not impossible to hit a forceful serve that way, but the margin for error is very small, as her serving history shows. Note that she almost always misses long; pushed slice is not going to have a great chance of falling in the box. I'd also agree with the stotty quote from MacMillan, that she should adjust her toss and go to the kick when she can't "find" a groove for a more flat/slice motion; super hard and out isn't a winning strategy, even if some small percentage of serves are in the box.

While a more rhythmic motion would be a plus, I think there are quite a few dependable serves on the tours that are not picture perfect. But having that elbow, a fulcrum, in the right place is key.

Sabalenka fell to Iga in today's Stuttgart final in straight sets.

Had 5 double faults, but match was never in doubt, so that wasn't the difference. Lots of good rallies, but Iga's defense was too good today & she has to be the overwhelming favorite in any WTA match on clay now.

Sabalenka is still having a great year: "Sabalenka will still exit Stuttgart as the match-win leader for the year, having accrued 23 match-wins thus far in 2023. Sabalenka will also retain her current position as No.1 in the Race to the WTA Finals."

Some highlights here:
https://www.wtatennis.com/news/32303...tuttgart-title

They have eyes but they do not see. They have ears but they do not hear. Lacking wisdom...and understanding.

Well...besides that here is another indication that there is something rotten in Denmark with the Aryna Sabalenka service motion and the implications it has on her entire game. When she faces a player like Iga Swiatek she obviously needs all of the aggressive tools she can muster and she must maximize their performance as well. tennisskp1515 exhibits typical modern coaching instincts in see nothing and do nothing. Nothing to see here...alright an elbow displacement or some other compensatory move. jimlosaltos...what can I say? Just a complete lack of understanding of the difference between winning and losing. It wasn?t a difference? Not a factor? Says who? On the contrary...there are some rather obvious problems begging to be addressed.

While tennisskp1515 is of the opinion that less than fluid is just ok...at 38 in the video we see evidence that this is just an obvious falsehood. Sabalenka has a sitter of an overhead but her overhead motion perfectly mirrors her service motion to a tee. Look how she fails to get her feet set (moving platform stance feet) and she fails miserably to pound the sitter into next week. Instead the little retriever Swiatek manages to get her Tecnifibre racquet on the ball and manages another lob and this one flutters down inside the service line and Aryna just makes a mess of it. Not sure what the score was but the margins are not that big. You cannot afford to give away points like this. Aryna ducks her head before impact as if trying to get out of her own way and the result...well it isn't pretty. She totally flubs it harmlessly into the middle of the net.

To quote the number of double faults and say that this wasn't the difference borders on...well I won't even say. But five is not an insignificant number. It represents a lack belief in her motion. Or rather lack of belief in the most crucial component of her game. For a player of Sabalenka to have a successful outcome against the retriever Swiatek she has to be aggressive. She must be on the attack when the situation warrents it. Certainly the service game is such a situation and the fact that Aryna must have lost her serve on a number of occasions shows that this is an area of her game that is due some concentrated effort after careful assessment. Remember...the most important statistic to a tennis player in the big picture is the ratio of potential realized to total potential. The overhead was another ugly indication that the potential is unrealized. If she could manage to eek out another fifteen percent of potential realized...who knows how much further down the road that might carry her.

I can understand the jimlosaltos asssessment considering the source but tennisskp1515 wrote from a coaching perspective and that is worrisome. It isn't that the Aryna motion lacks fluidity...it actually lacks any idea. Some are speculating that a player of her caliber cannot afford to take time away to straighten this out...but I say she cannot afford to not take the time away and resolve it.

[doctorhl]

They have eyes but they do not see. They have ears but they do not hear. Lacking wisdom...and understanding.

Well...besides that here is another indication that there is something rotten in Denmark with the Aryna Sabalenka service motion and the implications it has on her entire game. When she faces a player like Iga Swiatek she obviously needs all of the aggressive tools she can muster and she must maximize their performance as well. tennisskp1515 exhibits typical modern coaching instincts in see nothing and do nothing. Nothing to see here...alright an elbow displacement or some other compensatory move. jimlosaltos...what can I say? Just a complete lack of understanding of the difference between winning and losing. It wasn?t a difference? Not a factor? Says who? On the contrary...there are some rather obvious problems begging to be addressed.

While tennisskp1515 is of the opinion that less than fluid is just ok...at 38 in the video we see evidence that this is just an obvious falsehood. Sabalenka has a sitter of an overhead but her overhead motion perfectly mirrors her service motion to a tee. Look how she fails to get her feet set (moving platform stance feet) and she fails miserably to pound the sitter into next week. Instead the little retriever Swiatek manages to get her Tecnifibre racquet on the ball and manages another lob and this one flutters down inside the service line and Aryna just makes a mess of it. Not sure what the score was but the margins are not that big. You cannot afford to give away points like this. Aryna ducks her head before impact as if trying to get out of her own way and the result...well it isn't pretty. She totally flubs it harmlessly into the middle of the net.

To quote the number of double faults and say that this wasn't the difference borders on...well I won't even say. But five is not an insignificant number. It represents a lack belief in her motion. Or rather lack of belief in the most crucial component of her game. For a player of Sabalenka to have a successful outcome against the retriever Swiatek she has to be aggressive. She must be on the attack when the situation warrents it. Certainly the service game is such a situation and the fact that Aryna must have lost her serve on a number of occasions shows that this is an area of her game that is due some concentrated effort after careful assessment. Remember...the most important statistic to a tennis player in the big picture is the ratio of potential realized to total potential. The overhead was another ugly indication that the potential is unrealized. If she could manage to eek out another fifteen percent of potential realized...who knows how much further down the road that might carry her.

I can understand the jimlosaltos asssessment considering the source but tennisskp1515 wrote from a coaching perspective and that is worrisome. It isn't that the Aryna motion lacks fluidity...it actually lacks any idea. Some are speculating that a player of her caliber cannot afford to take time away to straighten this out...but I say she cannot afford to not take the time away and resolve it.

Don Budge: While you and others have made us think deeper into technique diagnosis(assessmeni), can you chime in on the second part of performance analysis and perhaps the most difficult........player compliance. I don't recall that this part has been discussed in length in the forum. Of course a distinction must be made between elite players who rely mostly on self analysis and others willing to rely on second party analysis. Pro players vary on the roles they want their coach to engage in: technique analysis, match strategy, psychological support, conditioning, etc.

An obvious starting framework for technique analysis in my opinion: "The more elite the player, the higher the stakes."

Player protocol for success: 1.The need for change must first be recognized. 2.Player must agree on the "fix". 3.Commitment to actually practice the "fix". 4.Acceptance of of possible initial decline in performance as new motor memory is introduced into a game situation.

[jthb1021]

My 6 month project with Don Budge! We created a ”frictionless” serve for me!

[don_budge]

My 6 month project with Don Budge! We created a ”frictionless” serve for me!

Don Budge: While you and others have made us think deeper into technique diagnosis(assessmeni), can you chime in on the second part of performance analysis and perhaps the most difficult........player compliance. I don't recall that this part has been discussed in length in the forum. Of course a distinction must be made between elite players who rely mostly on self analysis and others willing to rely on second party analysis. Pro players vary on the roles they want their coach to engage in: technique analysis, match strategy, psychological support, conditioning, etc.

An obvious starting framework for technique analysis in my opinion: "The more elite the player, the higher the stakes."

Player protocol for success: 1.The need for change must first be recognized. 2.Player must agree on the "fix". 3.Commitment to actually practice the "fix". 4.Acceptance of of possible initial decline in performance as new motor memory is introduced into a game situation.

Others? Somebody else calling for an overhaul of this contortionist...Aryna Sabalenka? I must have missed something. All I have heard are reasons that it cannot be done. I have been writing on this forum that the coaching in general has been hijacked. I have maintained that for years. Coaches are afraid to coach? Isn't that what they are paid for? Yada...yada...yada. The most important statistic is the realization percentage of a player's potential. If a coach does not have the capacity to take that player to approaching 100%...what are they doing for their wages? Applying sun screen?

Enter into the mix one jthb1021. He has been a contributor on the forum for a couple of years now and he sent me a video of some of his strokes...just testing the water. I saw this fellow's serve and I have to say...he was just pounding it. But, be that as it may, I saw something in it that gave me the impression that as good as it was it could be improved. He still had potential...a good deal of potential. I guarentee you one thing about his serve...nobody else in their right mind would have touched it. I went into it full machine and this guy went along with the program. Results? Ahhh...big time.

I have asked him to supply a video so that I might give a reasonable answer with evidence to you doctorhl. But in advance...this one is on the coaches. As tennisskp1515 proclaimed that Aryna's serve was good to go save for an elbow out of position that he credited you with observing. All the rest said there wasn't anything wrong with except...the toss. Another doing a comparison of numbers. You just cannot quantify this stuff. While you are asking a very important question, the real problem is most people do not want to hear the truth. Coaches are not nearly as competent as they should be and if that is the case...they protect their pet projects jealously and won't let anyone around them to tell them the sad truth. Tender egos. Much like nearly every tennis and golf coach that I have ever known. Protective and insecure. I don't have that problem. I encouraged my players to shop around in order that they would understand just who it was they were working with.

I really like your protocols for success...doctorhl.

[tennisskip1515]

If you want to quote me don_budge, much less make haughty criticisms in an insulting manner, at least quote me accurately. Where did I "proclaim" (sheesh, you'd think I'd stated my observation in the manner of the Sermon On The Mount, which I did not) that Sabalenka's serve was "good to go" but for the elbow? As I see it her elbow's position is the crux of the problem, which is what I wrote while at the same time not denying that her motion was less than friction free, much less perfect.

"While tennisskp1515 is of the opinion that less than fluid is just ok..." I wrote nothing of the sort. All I said is that there are effective serves on the tours that are less than fluid. Do you disagree? You're certainly entitled to do so, but a constructive back-and-forth would entail accurate descriptions of what another writes and one's counterpoint, without ad hominem attacks. Your ripostes lack all of that.

You know nothing about me, so a dismissive crack about my having a "modern" coaching perspective is based on, what exactly? If I changed my handle to bill_tilden would I get more respect?

Perhaps others find arrogance proof of great knowledge. I do not. I am sorry to see that tennisplayer.net supports this kind of interaction by not flagging it.