Originally posted by stroke
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Interactive Forum April 2023: Aryna Sabalenka Serve
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Originally posted by jimlosaltos View Post
True! Also helps to be backed by the billionaire co-founder of Sony, Akio Morita.
Last edited by tenniscoach1; 04-11-2023, 03:45 AM.
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Originally posted by jeffreycounts View Post
Worst overhaul ever: Ernests Gulbis forehand.
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Originally posted by jimlosaltos View PostFor anyone that hasn't been following the saga of Sabalenka's travails at the service line, here's a few items to catch up on:
2) Rick Macci said, "There is no biomechanical problem with her serve. Her mechanics are fine, the problem is 100% mental."
3) Gigi Fernandez on Tennis Channel last week: "The problem is her toss. Her contact point moves around too much."
4) Gavin MacMillan, the biomechanics trainer that claims credit for fixing the Belarusian's serve, whose YouTube interview was posted here by seano. As I understand his lengthy discussion, he claims her off hand moves to the wrong side of her body and that her palm needed to face the side wall. He also softly tosses in that when it isn't working she should move the toss back and hit kick.don_budge
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Originally posted by don_budge View Post
Gee...do you think that the coaching might be dumbed down just a little? Who was it that said the "coaching was hijacked" back in the 1980's? "Her mechanics are just fine." "The problem is her toss." It isn't any wonder that a player of Aryna's talent should end up with a serve motion where she is so contorted you have to be concerned as to how her neck appears in the middle of it. Player's surround themselves with dumb coaches who in turn shelter their little proteges from any meaningful input for fear of their own fragile egos getting hurt. It isn't any fun getting out-coached.
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Originally posted by jeffreycounts View Post
Worst overhaul ever: Ernests Gulbis forehand.
THEN the start of the decline might have been when Gulbis went to a Florida trainer that bulked him up so much he lost mobility and quickness. Same trainer (can't recall name) also worked with Jelena Jankovic, who had a very good forehand. Both lost a year of careers to getting muscle bound.
Djokovic's early coach Jelena Genčić was on to something when she avoided weight training and emphasized flexibility instead.
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Originally posted by jimlosaltos View Post
My recollection is that whatever Gulbis's forehand deficiencies were early on, it was good enough to beat Fed and push Nadal to match point in back-to-back clay matches.
Djokovic's early coach Jelena Genčić was on to something when she avoided weight training and emphasized flexibility instead.
Didn't know that about Gencic. I know in the brief time Agassi spent with Novak he thought he was too thin in the upper body, but Novak's trainers were intent on strengthening Novak's legs and taking weight off the upper body in the interest of speed and greater longevity. I know this though a physio who knows one of the trainers on Novak's team. Not sure how reliable this insight is but I am sure there is an element of truth in it.
Stotty
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Originally posted by jimlosaltos View Post
My recollection is that whatever Gulbis's forehand deficiencies were early on, it was good enough to beat Fed and push Nadal to match point in back-to-back clay matches.
THEN the start of the decline might have been when Gulbis went to a Florida trainer that bulked him up so much he lost mobility and quickness. Same trainer (can't recall name) also worked with Jelena Jankovic, who had a very good forehand. Both lost a year of careers to getting muscle bound.
Djokovic's early coach Jelena Genčić was on to something when she avoided weight training and emphasized flexibility instead.
And to Jim’s point, bulking up hurt Tiger Woods big time. Golf, like tennis, is all about flexibility. That’s where timing and explosiveness come from. Look at Kyrgios or Federe, both built like twigs. So looks like Gulbis got bad advice there as well. https://www.sportingnews.com/us/amp/...w1fzw3n9sjhbacLast edited by jeffreycounts; 04-12-2023, 09:51 AM.
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Originally posted by stotty View Post
You certainly like to slip in the odd counterargument that's for sure....and why not when they will always be the odd player around who defies logic. And yes Gulbis did have some good results with that bizarre forehand so it's not to so easy to ruin a quality player as one might think - although Bresnik did have a jolly good go.
Didn't know that about Gencic. I know in the brief time Agassi spent with Novak he thought he was too thin in the upper body, but Novak's trainers were intent on strengthening Novak's legs and taking weight off the upper body in the interest of speed and greater longevity. I know this though a physio who knows one of the trainers on Novak's team. Not sure how reliable this insight is but I am sure there is an element of truth in it.
Re: Your comment on Djokovic. Others have noted that he looks more bulked up this year. Can't say I've noticed, but ... it's out there.Last edited by jimlosaltos; 04-12-2023, 09:59 AM.
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Originally posted by jeffreycounts View Post
Gulbis was a top ten player. Beat Roger in the French Open and then beat Berdych to reach the semi finals. He had a complete, explosive game with no weaknesses s d a world class forehand. To take a young guy like that and change anything is absurd. To turn his forehand take back into a cartoonish anomaly is unconscionable. If this was a doctors it would be considered malpractice. Now Gulbis is 34, toiling away on the challenger tour, making headlines only for being a jerk. Point being you don’t mess with a great stroke. And you really don’t change it to something that looks ridiculous and has no precedent in terms of technique. That coach was beyond incompetent. Of course Gulbis is a world class jerk so that makes it easier to stomach.
I recall Gulbis beating Ivo Karlovic in finals at Delray Beach by making it look routine to return Dr. Ivo's FIRST serve from inside the baseline.
It was like Gulbis had more 'time' than anyone else.
First time I saw him was in San Jose perhaps semi vs Andy Roddick, on break point, took an over 140 MPH serve from Andy and seemingly had so much time he overhit. Roddick looked at Gulbis as if he had seen an alien.
Then ... the forehand. A good example perhaps of the risks inherent in changing a Top 10 player's game.
Or, perhaps he was always destined to lose focus and meltdown.Last edited by jimlosaltos; 04-12-2023, 11:38 AM.
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Another player that may have damaged her game by bulking up is Paula Badosa.
Used to look like a fashion model but with biceps when she was number 2 in the world, beating Iga and Arya. Good mover, good all around game and serve.
Last year she got very buff -- and her game went downhill. Now outside the top 30.
Correlation does not prove causation, but they tend to happen at the same time (an old stats joke).
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Originally posted by jimlosaltos View Post
Hugh Laurie's Dr. House would do a "Differential Diagnosis" on Saby's serve <g>
Is it nerves, technique, or too aggressive second serving?
When confronted with symptoms all over the map, House would tell his team to fake looking for Lupus "It has so many symptoms, we can test for everything."
There are no symptoms all over the map. This woman's serve is not mystery. It is right there in front of everyone and God to see. Nobody seems to know what the hell to make of it. This...that or the other thing. It is a relatively simple fix. As simple as "take two and see me in the morning". The biggest and most important number is always regarding the potential. In this case the number is huge. In others it might be quite small...yet worth investigating. Tennis is a game of inches...and less.don_budge
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General overall impression of this thread. It had great potential and was quite interesting but now has devolved into a discussion of some rather innocuous tidbits of fun facts of players past. Serve motions are a subject that is very misunderstood and those that truly understand "The Art in the Zen of Serving" are few and far between. Currently Jannik Sinner would be the posterboy for changing horses in midstream. He went from pinpoint to platform which is the correct decision eight days a week but his development has seemingly stalled a bit. It will be interesting to see where the brain trust behind this young and developing talent where guide him. Who and why was behind the change decision? Was Jannik on board immediately?
It isn't about biomechanics. It isn't about statistics. It is about motion. Fluid and perfect motion. The weight of the body and the arms must be synched to the ball and the racquet head. It is racquet head speed that produces spin and speed. It is the path of the racquet head that dictates placement. What are the problems in a motion? What are the fixes? It isn't rocket science, but like the golf swing remains to be quite a mystery.don_budge
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