Interactive Forum: June 2013: Marcelo Rios Two-Handed Backhand

[johnyandell]

Marcelo Rios Two-Handed Backhand

Has a player ever hit a more compact two-handed backhand at the tour level than Marcel Rios? There is a lot of discussion regarding backswing shapes on all the groundstrokes. How about straight back initiated with a gorgeous, simple immediate shoulder turn and almost no arm motion? Note also, even the high final ball, the racket head doesn't drop with the forearm rotation we see commonly with top players. Then it's straight through the shot with great extension. Is it just too simple? Or a backhand a player at any level could dream of having?

[johnyandell]

Quicktime version

Marcelo Rios - Two Handed Backhand

[vrc10s]

Beautiful

Rios has a simple and beautiful backhand.

I don't see much if any stretch/shortening cycle. He has a little pull to the ball but then his racquet rotates into the ball.

If I remember Rios playing correctly, he took the ball early and his attack was more court position than ball speed. This makes sense when you see how simple his swing is. Also with so little SSC I would think he got less racquet head speed.

I agree that his backhand is a great one for a lot of rec players to copy.

[dimitrios]

I've seen "gorgeous" and "beautiful" to describe Rios's backhand (or at least an element of it) and I must politely disagree here. While I look forward to what others have to say about the mechanics of the shot, the aesthetics are IMHO quite unsatisfactory. I suppose one could say the stroke appears simple, clean....

A few other quick observations:
-- His wrists appear not as laid back during the forward swing as some backhands. (Is this related, John, to what you describe as forearm rotation?)
-- The stroke seems (at least on this viewing, which may be deceptive) to lack big power.
-- While the takeback seems to be "straight back," it also seems strongly suggestive of a pendulum-type prep and swing.

[johnyandell]

D,

I'll have to say to me simple is beautiful. As for big power--uh the guy was one in the world. Took the ball early, blasted guys off the court at times. Not sure what level of power you are talking about. For average players if they could be 90% of this motion they would be the best two-handers at the club. All that ssc stuff is great and real but the cherry on top of the whip cream on top of the sauce on top of the ice cream. As for the wrists--they seem just about right.

[vrc10s]

"Beautiful"

I agree with John on "simple is beautiful". As I said it my first post on this thread, seeing his backhand is super slow motion you can see how he took the ball so early.

The lack of SSC was an observation, not a complaint.

It shows that there are still different ways to hit a ball and still be effective. Rios did make #1 in the world.

[roartt]

Does he hit flex/flex on most of his backhands?

[jryle1]

Well the joy about the simplicity of a stroke is that not many things can really go wrong? If you have complex backswings or forward swings or other elements in your stroke then it's going to be difficult to repeat over and over consistently. Of course the top players are bound to find a way but for the rest of us, simplicity may be a good thing, SSC or not.

[johnyandell]

The Left Arm is bent for sure...this angle not sure could be partially bent and close to Djok??

[giancarlo]

Rios vs. Agassi

Team--

Just watch a few of these points below vs. Agassi. This is some of the best Tennis ever played by a guy who barely reached a height of 5'7". Brilliant angles and aggressiveness at the right time. At times, I actually had to look away, as I had never before seen anyone beat Agassi at his own game.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONznVs_KN8Y

[stotty]

Team--

Just watch a few of these points below vs. Agassi. This is some of the best Tennis ever played by a guy who barely reached a height of 5'7". Brilliant angles and aggressiveness at the right time. At times, I actually had to look away, as I had never before seen anyone beat Agassi at his own game.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONznVs_KN8Y

That's a lovely clip. I just love those backhands down the line. How he does that is quite amazing. I love the one where he almost climbs up on the ball to hit...terrific.

The highlights show what seemed like a great set. The bread and butter game of Agassi versus the shotmaking wardrobe of Rios. Wonderful to see Rios trying as hard as that. He really wanted that one.

Shame, though, about the arrogance he displayed in many of his matches - as arrogance simply masks a lack of true inner confidence. He liked to belittle opponents where he could. Arrogance always lets you down at crunch time...those times when you have to grovel for victory because there is no other way...probably this is why he never won a slam. God knows he was blessed with the skills to do it.

Shame is attitude wasn't like in your posted clip all the time.

[bababooey76]

Rios 2002 match versus Agassi

I was court side at that match (as I've been for years since I live in South Florida) and it was easily the best two sets of tennis that I've ever seen (shame that Rios quit before the start of the third with knee pain)

The point/question that I wanted to make to John (and the group) is that I'm fairly sure that Rios got a very late start into tennis compared to the other greats (if memory serves me, he was at least 10 when he started and likely a little older because I remember being floored at the news) and if his simple, compact techniques possibly sped up his "10,000 hour rule" learning curve because he was the top junior in the world at 16 or 17. Add to that the fact that he never appeared to be the type of player who would hit balls for hours upon hours in practice and maybe this simplicity should be copied by many beginning junior players instead of adult players.

[klacr]

I was court side at that match (as I've been for years since I live in South Florida) and it was easily the best two sets of tennis that I've ever seen (shame that Rios quit before the start of the third with knee pain)

The point/question that I wanted to make to John (and the group) is that I'm fairly sure that Rios got a very late start into tennis compared to the other greats (if memory serves me, he was at least 10 when he started and likely a little older because I remember being floored at the news) and if his simple, compact techniques possibly sped up his "10,000 hour rule" learning curve because he was the top junior in the world at 16 or 17. Add to that the fact that he never appeared to be the type of player who would hit balls for hours upon hours in practice and maybe this simplicity should be copied by many beginning junior players instead of adult players.

bababooey tatatoothy mamamonkey,

Clearly a Stern fan.

Great name. Good post. Interesting to hear he started at 10. Very surprised to hear that. I just assumed he was some young child when he began and developed that over time. Could he really be that talented to start so late and develop that quickly? Loved watching him play. Couldn't believe some of the shots he came up with and executed to perfection. Shame his attitude was not as great as his game.

Kyle LaCroix USPTA
Boca Raton

[alonparis]

Great backhand but cause of back pain?

Hello all, I read the post in this thread with interest and watched the great Agassi-Rios clip (great memories and great match)...

Some thoughts. I am a lefty with a two-handed backhand and I used to have a simpler (and flatter) backhand motion (think US baseball motion) which often caused me to force my backhands and attempt to add power via "one-block" trunk rotation. Often my back would feel stiff afterwards. Since then I have worked to change to a more "modern" (yes, less simple, John) backhand. Thanks to the wrist layback, forearm pronation and swing pattern (hitting myself in the back Djoker style on the follow through) I am able to generate more spin, more power and with more fluidity and a lot less trunk rotation. The racket speed seems to be more than making up for less body behind the ball.

All that to say, I wonder how much Marcelo's beautifully simple backhand contributed to his unfortunate back injury? Many coaches seem to think it was a result of his kick serve but this thread got me thinking that maybe the backhand had something to do with it (too).

[florian80]

D,

I'll have to say to me simple is beautiful. As for big power--uh the guy was one in the world. Took the ball early, blasted guys off the court at times. Not sure what level of power you are talking about. For average players if they could be 90% of this motion they would be the best two-handers at the club. All that ssc stuff is great and real but the cherry on top of the whip cream on top of the sauce on top of the ice cream. As for the wrists--they seem just about right.

"All that ssc stuff is great and real but the cherry on top of the whip cream on top of the sauce on top of the ice cream."

Love that quote and that is exactly how I feel. Working with players that are aiming to be top level professionals however, I believe that actively focusing on the ssc (after other fundamentals of course) is the way to go.

I doubt there will be many players around at the highest levels of the game that don't use the ssc to maximum effect on forehands and backhands