Interactive Forum January 2012: Mardy Fish Two-Handed Backhand

[johnyandell]

Mardy Fish Two-Handed Backhand

OK this month by popular demand, the two-handed backhand of the top ranked American player, Mardy Fish. He's got a great technical swing, and many coaches think his backhand is an excellent teaching model. But for whom? After reading Doug Eng's series on the two-hander, (Click Here) which path to power do you think he represents? Check out the grips, the elbow configurations, and the swing radius, and tell us what you think!

[johnyandell]

Quicktime Version

[stotty]

Lovely backhand.

I really like two-handed backhands where the racket is cocked up at the end of the backswing. I feel it helps players get under the ball for more spin and power. Mardy does this wonderfully. It's a great model for juniors to try and emulate.

The dominant hand looks slightly towards a forehand continental - is it?

I can't quite see from the angle of the clips whether the racket face is sitting ever so slightly open at the end of the backswing...looks like it is.

[johnyandell]

I think that's right. Knuckle is higher but heel pad is quite low... Doug?

[stotty]

I was looking in the stroke archive. Mardy seems to break his wrists a similar amount to Djokovic. Mardy's dominant arm seems more fully locked out compared to Djokovic's, which is extended but not locked. Their backhands seem fairly similar to each other in style. I just wonder exactly where their hands are sitting on their grips...tricky to be precise about that looking a video clips. I hope Doug pops in to take a look. Be great to get Doug's assessment of Mardy's backhand.

[DougEng]

Fish Backhand

Just saw this (traveling over weekend...for what else? tennis meetings) Fish has a hybrid backhand. Djokovic has more short levers than most men. His elbows tend to bend significantly more. So he uses 3 sets of hinges: wrists, elbows and shoulders (like many WTA players). Fish is more straight-armed with a continental forehand. Unlike most men, he uses a bit more wrist which his grip allows him. So he has two hinges (shoulders and wrists). That's not to say the elbows are locked...but they are a lesser player.

Interesting today, a friend and (well-known..here) pro speaking likes to teach the straight arm forehand (Federer and Nadal) to juniors. Has some interesting ideas. I like the straight-arm FH too (I always used it). For that, there is some flexion/deviation in the wrist, particularly during elbow flexion (follow-through). So it's a similar concept to the 2-hinge Fish BH swing (that's Federer's straight-arm forehand). He was overteaching it a bit calling it a snap, but I would call it more an axial rotation of the wrist (flexion, deviation and pronation along the same axis...the relatively straight arm) as the elbow flexes.

[msmith33]

John and LicensedCoach: How do "two-handed backhands where the racket is cocked up at the end of the backswing" help players "players get under the ball for more spin and power" ? Struggled with this myself (getting under it, not cocking up). Never felt like I could drop from there to get under it and tended to come through flat (and often hit knuckleballs with no spin). After a recent article here, I took my bottom hand from Continental to a bit stronger BH grip and take it back to a lower position to ensure I get under it. Thx.

[johnyandell]

It's a fair question. The hands and wrists need to be slightly below the level of the ball. Sometimes for lower level or club players I think the higher backswings prevent this and often going straight back or close to straight back is the best way to get that position.

A more advanced component is what I've called the dip and roll where the players rotate the hitting arms to drop the tip of the racket further. It's sort of the equivalent of the wiper for the two-hander. I've written more about that here:

http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/avancedtennis/john_yandell/two_handed_backhand/2hd_bh_arm_rotaion/2hd_bh_arm_rotaion.html

[DougEng]

John's Article

It's a fair question. The hands and wrists need to be slightly below the level of the ball. Sometimes for lower level or club players I think the higher backswings prevent this and often going straight back or close to straight back is the best way to get that position.

A more advanced component is what I've called the dip and roll where the players rotate the hitting arms to drop the tip of the racket further. It's sort of the equivalent of the wiper for the two-hander. I've written more about that here:
http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/...m_rotaion.html

Great article on the backhand, John. haha...how come I didn't see this? But you are dead on with the backhand "wiper" and the struggle of beginners. Also great point on juniors trying to close the racquet face.

Best,
Doug

[stotty]

John and LicensedCoach: How do "two-handed backhands where the racket is cocked up at the end of the backswing" help players "players get under the ball for more spin and power" ? Struggled with this myself (getting under it, not cocking up). Never felt like I could drop from there to get under it and tended to come through flat (and often hit knuckleballs with no spin). After a recent article here, I took my bottom hand from Continental to a bit stronger BH grip and take it back to a lower position to ensure I get under it. Thx.

Having the racket raised up at the end of the backswing is nothing new. Go to the stroke archive and watch Borg and Connors do exactly that. Rather like having a loop on the forehand, it helps to keep the racket moving as it descends beneath the ball in the approach to the strike.

But it was Sergi Bruguera that really popularised the more extreme version of having the racket cocked up during the take-back. His version of the shot is probably the most extreme because his racket head is pointing vertically up right from the beginning of the backswing. I used to love Bruguera's early preparation and the amount of topspin he could generate off his backhand. He had a formidable backhand on clay. It worked less well on grass when I saw him a Wimbledon...though he did reach the quarters that year.

But doing it Agassi's way is perhaps the more simple model for club players to copy: Straight back with the racket, slightly tail up at the end of the backswing, and drop down to brush up and strike the ball. Bruguera's way is much more complex to learn and execute.

[johnyandell]

Doug, LC,

Thanks and agreed.

JY