Interactive Forum: Sep-Oct 2009: Melanie Oudin Footwork

[julian]

I understand your point

Again, in my opinion there is not a "Federer" model if you mean taking only large steps. That is not what he does in all circumstances and I think you'll see the same thing for all the players. I'm assuming you actually looked at the clips and can see this. The Bailey Method is right there on the site under Footwork.

John,
I understand your point about making A DISTICTION between "a Federer model"
and the Bailey method.
I saw clips you quoted.
I know the Bailey method articles.

I believe a question WHAT to coach is still A VALID one.
By the way it was brought by tommyt originally I believe.
I understand that my question depends on a size of a player,his/her quickness,
etc
Just hoping to get some feedback on the subject.
Thank you

[johnyandell]

I will try to make myself clear for the last time. You believe there is a Federer model, I don't. My own opinion is that it is great to teach small fast steps around the ball--like Mealnie--especially with younger players. This helps them feel aligning precisely and the mental dimension is underrated.

In play it happens fast, obviously. If you can take longer strides and still position behind the ball great. But sometimes it takes a combination depending on where you are and where the ball is. The proof is in the positioning and the set up. If players have developed a feeling for how to align they will probably combine the steps naturally. If you look at David's work you can see there are literally dozens of possible combinations--and if a player is struggling with some pattern, you can dissect it readily with reference to his work.

[tommyt]

Melanie is on her toes in between shots, the whole time... No other pro that I've seen in stroke archives or the interactive forum is like that. She seems to be taking "adjustment steps" in-between shots as well as when she is setting up to hit the ball. I know coaches emphasize "stay on your toes", maybe Melanie takes it literally. I have seen juniors take small steps to get to balls way off the court and they never get into proper position b/c their coach is telling them to take small, baby, adjustment steps... I know this is not the case with Melanie... I guess if you have time, those little steps are good if that is your cup of tea... There may be many ways to skin the cat.

[johnyandell]

Not sure I see that when I look at the frame by frame footage--she lands heel to toe on larger strides, other times she's on the balls of her feet first--like Fed et all...That's when she starts to move.

Not really my area of expertise though...I emailed Dave Bailey and maybe he'll have time to comment.

[tommyt]

It seems that after she has hit the ball and before she splits steps for the next shot she is "on her toes" doing adjustment steps ... I don't see that with other pros... not right or wrong, just an observation. Looking forward to hearing what David says. Be well.

[oliensis]

It seems that after she has hit the ball and before she splits steps for the next shot she is "on her toes" doing adjustment steps ... I don't see that with other pros... not right or wrong, just an observation. Looking forward to hearing what David says. Be well.

Check out Borg and Federer. May have been others before them. But B & F take more steps than anyone else I've noticed AFTER they hit the ball but BEFORE their opponent hits the ball. They're like boxers, up on their toes, bouncing, readying, bobbing, weaving, and I think it translates into explosiveness on the first step off the split step.

PS: Not necessarily the Borg in the stroke archives (who is playing senior events). But the Borg on Youtube videos playing at the French, Wimbledon, etc.

[DavidBailey]

I actually really like Melanie's footwork, she doesn't take little steps when pushed wide, only when moving around the ball, which I encourage.

I like a heel to toe movement when moving short distances as it keeps the weight back and good body alignment though I do like the last step or penultimate step to be bigger so you hit off a wide stable base.

When having to move very quickly and/or longer distances this is when you drop onto the toe of the foot closet to the ball so you can RUN if needed, though it is the other leg that does the initial push.... the drop step is more of a pull.

In relation to COPYING other pros footwork it is all about experimenting and what works for the individual. I always say there are two types of players. "Grunters", use a lot of small steps and put a lot of effort into there feet and their shots (Connors, Nadal, Hewitt, Sharapova) and "Flow-ers" (as in flowing players) who move effortlessly and glide around the court with minimal tension (Borg, Sampras, Federer, Henin, Hingis, Edberg).

If you get a Flow-er to take lots of steps it throws off their rhythm, if you get a grunter to make less effort they lose their energy and drive that makes them good in the first place. So in other words footwork is really player specific and FEELS COMFORTABLE and WORKS for that player. I see Melanie as more of a Grunter meaning she looks like she is working hard but this suits her personality (by the look of her??).

I like the way Melanie stays up on her toes (when recovering)and takes those extra light ready steps before split stepping.

I like the little light steps she takes when waiting for the shot just as long as she times her split step at the right time... it is all good. Just by looking at her.... she would play well when she moves well so she needs keep her energy up. I really wish most juniors would have the commitment that Melanie has to her movement. She comes across by the way.... as a really good fighter and very fit and this can be intimidating to her opponent. Looking at her if you said calm her feet down I think it would hurt her mentally.

I find junior players take more steps because the ball isn't coming as fast, deep or wide. The pros have less time and the balls in general are wider i.e. they hit more moguls and power moves where Melanie isn't really pushed in the rallies that you showed.

So more on that, your out steps are going to be determined by the type of approaching ball. I like small steps on floating balls and easy balls that you can run around. When you are attacking the ball with you feet I like smaller steps, when you are rallying I like moderate,r hythmical steps and when defending I like larger crossing or running steps. So when commenting on footwork you do need to look at the individual ball and not be too general

In relation to side skip or crossover recovery steps you should use both....and master both..... in fact recovery steps really vary . Federer crossess behind on a lot of his recovery steps because this suits his 1 handed backhand....I don't see the cross behind much on 2 handed backhands, so it is all about being able to use what recovery step suits the situation and what the player likes.

I have some players who do not have the athletic ability to crossover and they become very off balance when trying to do so....I just get these players to side skip .. With Melanie she crosses back, she side skips big and side skips small...again I love the way she moves...because her energy is fantastic....I think her footwork is her strength (like HEWITT)

In relation to Federer ..... he actually does take a lot of steps when running around a floating midcourt ball but keeps footwork minimal when pushed....so I believe you need both.....its more about moving with great rhythm, getting balanced and most importantly moving in such a way that the weight is kept back so there is great transfer of weight when the contact move is performed.

When you say someone is moving on their toes, they really should be moving on the balls of their feet. Moving on the toes means the weight is NOT centered in the quads. Mind you.... I like being on the toes when recovering just before your split step as I feel you can then drop into the split step or keep the momentum flowing i.e. a flow or shift split.....

[uspta990770809]

Great post

Thanks, David. Great post. It adds a lot of texture to the sense of your system we get from your articles here.
don

[DavidBailey]

Appreciate it Don.

[rosheem]

Footwork - Bridging from Understanding to Execution

One reason I've held out on purchasing the Bailey Method materials is that I've never been sure that I could make the practice commitment required to really get the benefit. It seems like footwork practice must require a partner and lots of live-ball action, which is not easy to come by in the world of adult NTRP tennis.

But his comments here really tempt me to jump in and give it a try, since footwork is my current focus.

I like a heel to toe movement when moving short distances as it keeps the weight back and good body alignment though I do like the last step or penultimate step to be bigger so you hit off a wide stable base.

Keeping the weight back is something I struggle with and I think this challenge must be much bigger at the 4.0 level because we face so many short, slow balls.

"Flow-ers" (as in flowing players) who move effortlessly and glide around the court with minimal tension (Borg, Sampras, Federer, Henin, Hingis, Edberg).

In tennis and other sports, this is closer to my natural style. This might help explain why taking 'small steps' always seems forced and uncomfortable.

I find junior players take more steps because the ball isn't coming as fast, deep or wide. The pros have less time and the balls in general are wider i.e. they hit more moguls and power moves where Melanie isn't really pushed in the rallies that you showed.

Things are so...much...slooooowwwerrrrr at 4.0.

So more on that, your out steps are going to be determined by the type of approaching ball. I like small steps on floating balls and easy balls that you can run around. When you are attacking the ball with you feet I like smaller steps, when you are rallying I like moderate,r hythmical steps and when defending I like larger crossing or running steps. So when commenting on footwork you do need to look at the individual ball and not be too general

This is the take-away lesson here. I think it will help me immediately.

.....its more about moving with great rhythm, getting balanced and most importantly moving in such a way that the weight is kept back so there is great transfer of weight when the contact move is performed.

Another big take-away: keep the weight back.

[isanchez]

Continuous SplitStep

I´ve seen it in quite bit of players, and I call it to my Students de Continuous SplitStep. Sharapova uses it a lot for example. The bad news is that it consumes much more energy, than the clasis splisStep, but in the other hand, the player reduces the risk of mistiming the splitstep, since there is so little time between one step and another. It´s very demanding for using it along a hole match, and becasuse of that, players use it ocasionally in very important points. A lot of players uses nevertheles for the rest footwork action, Nadal is a good example of it.

Oudin takes many more steps in between shots than any other pro. Her side steps have a short stride so there are many more of them. I went back to the stroke archive section and all those great players, from Sampras to Agassi to Henin to Federer to Nadal don't use that type of footwork. I've noticed many young juniors starting to use "Oudin's" type of footwork... I'm trying to figure out if all those steps are necessary.?

[bmonsour]

Steps between shots aid anticipation

On a recent hit with a friend (we're both in the 4.0 range), we got into a discussion of footwork between shots. Since then, I've been focusing on keeping my feet moving between shots. My personal observation is that it has helped me to more easily get a good first step toward the next ball. In short, it has been a great aid to my anticipation of the next shot and I feel I'm picking up the incoming ball not only with my eyes, but with my feet at the same time.

Regards,
-Bob

[carrerakent]

lots of steps around the ball

you guys miss it 100 percent.

why does a player take lots of steps around the ball?

because they don't freakin' know where the contact point is going to be early enough to take two larger steps and set and be ready!

to answer the guys question about teaching steps, etc. ....you have to teach a player how to recognize where the contact point is going to be. Federer and many other good players know where contact is going to be before the opponents ball has landed on his side of the court.

coaches and teaching pros don't understand reading contact point or the world of tennis wouldn't be teaching so much screwed up stuff. teach yourself or your student how to read the contact point and they will stop taking tons of steps because they will not need them.

email me if you want help on learning to read contact point earlier. kmwood@earthlink.net