For Kyle: Emerson explains slice backhand...

[bottle]

I think one of the most important teaching points on the slice backhand is the grip. I feel if one is in a true continental, with the heel of the hand close to bevel one, the wrist can be/will can be extended or laid back at contact, which is the strongest position for the wrist. I think it is way easier to produce the true biting slice with this grip. Federer does this, Novak and Nadal have too much of a forehand type grip to me for their slice backhands.

But try em all and don't be slave to any and then try one in between and one to either end.

[10splayer]

Writing on this forum has become a hobby for me. Thank you for your comment...it really made me think. It challenged me...intellectually speaking. Primarily because I haven't the faintest idea what you are talking about.

But great conversationalists are not always the one that is expounding upon any given subject...it could be that they know how to ask the right question at just the right moment.

Come to think of it...isn't a tennis match a sort of conversation? You spin to me...I spin to you. That type of thing...and thanks again!

You're right, I do think of you as the modern day David Frost/Carl Bernstein of tennis forums....The courage to ask/moderate the really tough/thought provoking questions. But yeah, you got me..kinda pissed me off, mostly because I wasn't going to say anything until you made your little snide comments, that were obviously directed at me. He's a legend, (no not you), and by all accounts a super guy (maybe not you), and in spite of the fact i really DISAGREE (yeah I said it) with the instruction, I didn't feel the need to comment until you opened your big pie hole.

Because the racquet face tends to open more as the swing progresses forward, the contact point is moved back with a continental compared to a stronger, topspin oriented one. Certainly, not reaching forward, "way out in front"...

Congrats though, you got a rise out of me...You're just too clever/informed for me. I should know better...

[stotty]

Continental is best

I think one of the most important teaching points on the slice backhand is the grip. I feel if one is in a true continental, with the heel of the hand close to bevel one, the wrist can be/will can be extended or laid back at contact, which is the strongest position for the wrist. I think it is way easier to produce the true biting slice with this grip.

I feel the same. It's easier to cut down the back of the ball with a continental grip. With a weaker grip the ball can hover in some situations. I also think the continental is better for high balls...a shot the one-handed slice is truly designed for.

[gzhpcu]

Rosewall's backhand grip, according to Mercer Beasley ("How to Play Championship Tennis"):

The backhand grip preferred by the majority of the tournament players is the Eastern with the hand given a quarter-turn over the top of the racket. Rosewall keeps his thumb around the handle of the racket which is virtually a "must" on low backhand shots.

[stotty]

Rosewall's backhand grip, according to Mercer Beasley ("How to Play Championship Tennis"):

Looks like a very weak eastern to me from the photo. But, yes, why not...would explain how he hit through the ball so well.

[don_budge]

hey bottle...

What were you saying about the "Australian Grip" with regards to Richard Gonzales' backhand?

Note: The little backhand proposed here seems to deny the intelligence coming to us through Ellsworth Vines that Pancho Gonzalez used the Australian grip on all of his backhands, then kept it for his service returns but strengthened it (adjusted hand backward on handle more) for ground play in order to do better against Jack Kramer on their tour together.

[gzhpcu]

This is a photo from Pancho Gonzalez's book: (click on image for larger view)

[bottle]

Wow. Wonderful. Especially after one does the first click. And then looks for some mental clicks. Much better than in the book, which I also have.

I take it that this is the backhand grip that Pancho Gonzalez adopted right in the middle of his tour with Jack Kramer. Regard all the thumb behind the handle. And the spread of the first two fingers up the other side of the handle.

What I don't know, but maybe there are pictures of this too somewhere, is whether Richard (Pancho) had more of a hammer with hand turned further forward and with thumb wrapped rather than along before the change. And that that was what he continued to use for his backhand service returns. (I'm thinking in particular of his very short-angled chop of a kick serve which he intentionally let bounce quite high first.)

I know one thing for sure: I would never disbelieve anything that Ellsworth Vines said.

Note: What's going on in the third photo, with wrist all straight like that? Is that just for demonstration or for a drive? Certainly would close the strings a good bit.
And how about Mr. Emerson's grip in the slice video up above? Thumb along or thumb wrapped? Think I'll go up there to see now if I can see but won't report back.

I can't remember what "the little backhand proposed here" was all about in the quote of me by Steve but don't think that matters.

[stotty]

Treasure trove...

I take it that this is the backhand grip that Pancho Gonzalez adopted right in the middle of his tour with Jack Kramer. Regard all the thumb behind the handle. And the spread of the first two fingers up the other side of the handle.

What I don't know, but maybe there are pictures of this too somewhere, is whether Richard (Pancho) had more of a hammer with hand turned further forward and with thumb wrapped rather than along before the change. And that that was what he continued to use for his backhand service returns. (I'm thinking in particular of his very short-angled chop of a kick serve which he intentionally let bounce quite high first.)

A treasure trove.

It would wonderful to connect the dots here...thumb wrapped versus thumb along. A real turning point in a stroke if Gonzales elected to change from one to the other. Why did he change? What were the benefits? No one ever changes a grip mid-career these days, or do they? Never heard of anyone doing so.

Does the quality of one's slice lie in the grip? It seems players were erring towards eastern back in the day when sliced backhands reigned supreme and were executed better than any sliced backhands we see today. Have players and coaches today become so preoccupied with the topspin drive that they have somehow forgotten how to hold the bat for slice?

I heard Lew Hoad remodelled his backhand. How? What did he change? I love the idea a player should sacrifice a few results to develop a greater repertoire or stronger shots. Seems a good plan.

[worldsbesttenniscoach]

Emerson hit powerful groundstrokes, including his backhand slice. While I don't agree with all his emphases on the 1-hand backhand slice, he seems to understand that stroke far better than most of today's expert coaches understand it.

(1) Use a stronger grip that today's WTA & ATP players use.

(2) Hit with underspin, yes, but also hit thru the ball, unlike today's pros who flutter under the ball of chop down on the ball.

(3) Line up or track the ball with the strings of the racket, as opposed to players today who take the racket back too far above the flight of the ball.

(4) Use a more compact backswing for the slice than the pros today use.

(5) Be firmer with wrist than the flowery fluttery slices of the pros today.

(6) Catch the ball so that contact point is close to body but way out front towards the net, as opposed to today's pros who catch the ball behind them, out to the side.

(7) It is ok to block the ball crisply. With a well-timed block, or with only short followthrough, the ball can explode off the strings with more power than today's players hit their slices.

In other words, Emerson had a more compact, simpler, more powerful, more consistent slice than today's pros have.

[don_budge]

Roy Emerson...on the drive underspin backhand. The Transcript.

Of all of the beautiful tennis strokes to be found from A to Z or from the baseline to the net the slice backhand has more flexibility and more range or variety. You can start in the backcourt and begin with Roy Emerson's explanation of the fundamental slice backhand and work your way forwards and beyond.

Of all of the strokes in tennis...this is the shot that gets my hand sliding around the grip in more subtle ways than any other. Go any where on the court...have a student hold the ball at any height to you or forwards or backwards in your stance...now put your racquet face on the ball and adjust your grip in the manner in which you envision hitting the ball hovering in space that your student is holding. If you are an accomplished classic tennis player you can adapt or fit your body around your grip and your racquet in order to give the ball a perfectly rotating spin backwards. Voila...the slice.

Slice backhands run the gamut from nearly flat driving backhand of Ken Rosewall or even a Don Budge. Today you have the gargantuan slices that are rather one dimensional...it is the rare bird that uses the slice in a plethora of manner these days. But the permutations...as bottle likes to say are almost limitless. Afterall...how many points are there on any given tennis court? Infinite I would say...last time that I counted. But be that as it may...Roy Emerson's fundamental backhand advise is a good place to start and one can begin to sort out the derivatives as one goes along.

Perhaps you could say that Emerson's is the fundamental swing...what's the harm. Just build on it...all of you architects. Use your vivid and infinite imaginations. The gold mine. Backhand drive with slice...high backhands either returned low or high...soft and slow...or medium to average...low backhands...with more or less spin...lobs thrown up into the wind or with the wind...how much spin vs. how much pace vs. what type of trajectory...met earlier or later in you stance...depending upon what it is that you are tactically trying to achieve...approach shots...deep or short...heavier spin or less spin...more pace or less pace...half volleys...overspin or underspin...to the net...volley...crisp drive volley...feathered underspin delicacy...or slash under the ball to bounce it on your opponents side and spin it back...try it with a wood racquet too!

In this four minute video exchange between Roy Emerson and Peter Freeman we are offered a wealth of fundamental information on the DRIVE underspin backhand. I believe that calling this a slice backhand is a misnomer. It is a little misleading. Here is the transcript...if you read it carefully you will notice that Peter Freeman asks a key question that Roy Emerson answers perfectly...a perfect play if there is such a thing. Peter asks him how to drive with underspin to make the ball lay down and penetrate. Roy simply kills it...deep into the backhand corner with devilish placement and spin. Eastern backhand grip meeting the ball well out in front makes a world of sense considering the contact point and the intentions behind the shot.

Mr. Emerson's explanation is in the context of the question answered by Peter Freeman. The slice backhand has many permutations and derivatives...all with their wonderful subtlety of style and flair. The drive underspin backhand is one and the same that Kenny Rosewall used to pound his opponents into submission with. Of course it is only one small facet of the story...but it is rich in its simple folksy explanation. Leave it to a living legend...one of Hopman's protege's to deliver the goods on this vanishing shot. Perfectly Fundamentally Correct (FC).


Roy Emerson with Peter Freeman on the DRIVE underspin backhand

Peter Freeman: I’m here with tennis legend Roy Emerson. He’s won 28 Grand Slam titles. That is the most in men’s history so it is a real honor to be with him. This whole camp is amazing...it’s a fantasy camp at the John Newcombe Tennis Ranch and there are over 150 Grand Slam titles among these guys. You get to hit with them, you get to be on their team and at night it’s so much fun I can’t even really tell you what happens...you are going to have to experience it for yourself.

But today we are here with a tip and he is here with one of his favorite shots which is a one hand slice backhand. Now...why did you like that shot so much and how did you mostly use it?

Roy Emerson: Well with a one handed slice it is great to rally from the baseline with the slice because you can keep the ball so deep...and once you get good depth on the ball...plus if you slice it with a good compact slice it skids which makes it difficult for your opponent to do much with that ball. Also you can use it for return of serve...if someone has a big serve, a slice or a block return on the backhand so you are not taking a huge swing. You can take the ball on the rise and if you hit it properly and it is a well produced stroke you never miss the ball.

Peter Freeman: What do you think the key to getting it driving...I find that myself and a lot of students I teach sometimes it floats too much. What’s the key to making it drive really nice?

Roy Emerson: Well...you’ve got to hit it well out in front and the position you should be hitting it is this far out in front...way out there. Now with the grip...you need to get the grip around so you are going to an eastern backhand grip. Spread your fingers out well across the racquet...spread...make sure you get some air between these two fingers so the fungus doesn’t grow. That helps you control the head of the racquet.

Now what I mean by way out in front...I mean way out in front. When you take the racquet back make sure that you take it back on the same level as ball and it is ideal to get a good shoulder turn and once you have a good shoulder turn keep the racquet face open so when you bring the racquet in (to the ball) you close it or depending on how much you want to slice it...but don’t get to high on the take back. You want to try and get right behind the ball.

Now once you start forward with the racquet...lock your wrist. Make your wrist firm. So from here it is into the contact...so bend, straighten (the arm) and you are way out in front and then the head of the racquet is what goes in the direction of what you want the the ball to go. So you are keeping your elbow down...you are not doing this (raising the elbow), you are not pulling across your body. Let the (racquet) head go where you want the ball to go. So if you wanted to hit it across to over to there...you’d let the head go in that direction. So bend, straighten, extend. You don’t need anymore than that.

Peter Freeman: Can we see you hit a couple?

Roy Emerson: Well...I am not going to miss. So I don’t know...yeah, maybe so if I can get a decent feed from Barry.

Peter Freemen: Ok...we will put the pressure on him. I get to see a legend hit a backhand...it’s going to be pretty cool.

Roy Emerson: From here...if you take the racquet back to here, the important thing is to go in with your body so when your weight is on your front foot the racquet is meeting the ball...then the racquet head is just going where you want it to go. Try not to open up or bring this back foot around. So if you can keep your balance a bit better...over about there...back to here, lock your wrist and through.

So each time it is one side of your body to the other and you just happen to touch the ball in the process...and if your wrist is nice and firm and you have positioned yourself far enough away from the ball so your shoulders are in this position...not leaning back.

Then you can come in and do a little drop shot just at the same time.